Thursday, May 29, 2008


I'm looking for good sources on the Kundalini. After browsing the internet and finding these links: ats thread, another ats thread. These sites were recommended in the threads, their design make my "bs filter" go berserk: Kundalini Tantra, Kundalini Yoga training. Here is a story of awakening. Most info out there on the kundalini is by amateurs and it shows, and of course the online communities aren't too helpful because of course everybody is so pseudo besides themselves and their teachers, it's unbelievable how much ego creeps into spiritual and conscious forums. I personally tried a mystic routine from AYP for six months or so, and forgive my possible ignorance but I can't stand a system that has me expanding and changing techniques once you get good at them. I felt like it was a RPG style game or something and I was levelling up.

All this got started by seeing a google hit to my blog today with the search "Kundalini 13 gates", well I still don't know what those gates are and stopped caring as I don't understand much about kundalini as is. (I suppose they just symbolize the chakras in a larger system that includes chakras out of the body) I don't even know for sure what the freaking difference is between enlightenment and a kundalini raising, if there is one.

The path of Kundalini is a post-survival, higher circuit venture, and I'm still having a pretty damn hard time as is in my survival, lower circuit venture. The hardest being a seemingly uncurable physical condition (makes meditation and life in general so much fun, sometimes I just wanna break through a wall out of frustration), others are that I still don't know what profession I wanna do in this meaningless system the pricks before us cooked up and I'm still reprogramming all of my lower circuits which keeps me from getting serious with the higher ones.

All this stuff makes sure that I do not want to get into any higher circuit trouble. As awakening the kundalini prematurely is about the last thing I want. I've talked to folks who've experienced this online and frankly, I can't handle any more uncontrollable physical symptoms as I already have a daily one thanks, and I especially don't want my life to get weirder as I already can't talk to people about most of my interests, and I hate smalltalk :p.

Also I don't like the language of a lot of kundalini people in those threads, they seem anything but enlightened or even on their way. I notice a distressing high amount of dogma, concerning the sexual aspects, sudden enlightenment and more. I also don't really see the possibility of raising the kundalini in this lifetime, the sacrifices don't seem worth it or quite possible to me in this society. I will for now continue to meditate vipassana style (also, I did get into meditation and all of this as partly escapism from reality and myself, now that I have more or less rewired my brain to my liking as to enjoy life more I have less need and/or motivation to lose-or find- myself in consciousness practice) as much as is healthy and possible and experiment with other techniques often.
But a strict regime of exercises and moral life rules to follow as the only way out of this plane? To me, that seems BS: That seems more like religion, than 'technique'.

"I have an open mind about things. I don't have any dogmas. I await further enlightenment." Robert Anton Wilson

So a few questions:
What is your daily spiritual practice, do you meditate, etc?
What is the difference between Kundalini raising and Enlightenment?

Add anything you want, but keep it informative and as passionate-belief free as possible, thanks.


joeisjoe said...

In my experience the Entheogens have been quite similar to lucid dreaming as far as transcendent states go. LD has been my only natural vehicle to a fully out there state. Haven't made it out with meditation alone but definitely altered states.

Tried a few Kundalini classes and had some interesting body/head sensations but it seemed to leave me unbalanced so I backed off. The university I was studying at allowed a master to come in and lead a session once a week and the class was free. Maybe most universities or communities have something similar? He had a wealth of information to offer and seemed like the real deal. Just making eye contact with him caused a shift for me. Talking with a real person one on one might be more helpful than drudging through forums where everyone is either an expert or fearful/doubtful.

Also have experienced some interesting states with Monroe's HemiSync if you haven't given those a go.

One thing with Entheogens is that you open the door and then slam the door shut. Natural methods take the slow approach and leave the door constantly cracked. I found this difficult to handle. I could see why someone would want to join a monastery and not be trying to deal with day to day modern life at the same time.

Anyways - there's my 2cents.

Anonymous said...

"I still don't know what profession I wanna do in this meaningless system the pricks before us cooked up"

Right on man! I'm right there with you on that one. The hopelessly optimistic side of me says that something can be found that will work, but more and more I get the impression that we have to create it. Good luck!


dedroidify said...

wow that's a pretty cool university then joeisjoe, I've seen through closed eyed lids with hemisync but gave up after that cause I found the process a little tedious.
I've thought about that too, though one'd have to pick a good monastery.

Same here anonymous catalyst, I think creativity will have to lead the way.

Anonymous said...

(The following is just an explanation of one way I look at it, not what I consider as comprehensive truth. Just a means to get to some understanding. For instance the use of a term like mere altered state is quite unsatisfying. :)

I consider the difference between drugs and more natural methods being where the learning happens or doesn't.

With meditation and other training you create altered states and shake the neural network in ways it normally doesn't really budge at all. Eventually the neural network learns a new degree of freedom and eventually is able to "come and go" as it pleases.

With drugs the neural network is also shaken but there is no continuously differentiated connection to a "way to get there" other than that of taking the drug. Therefore, there is no way to learn that degree of freedom necessary to determine that state and degree of the state always yourself.

Also taking the drug may confuse the learning process by giving two alternative ways to get 'there'. Or, it may just be a powerful impediment to practice. :)

- jj

NAS said...

Between 1985 and 1989 I explored all available teachers and systems and theories kundalini related. I even at one point wrote to Gopi Krishna. When kundalini yoga practice finally led to some unique head sensations I had to choose to "go worldly" or "go spiritual". I was not in a position to go spiritual. I dropped practice. Years later reports came back to me that the most advanced individuals k-wise were incredibly unpleasant people. G Krishna (I recall) warned against inviting kundalini for this reason. It is very important - when possible - to practice becoming a lovely person. GK speculated kundalini is evolutionary and inevitable and unwelcome at present. - cheers

dedroidify said...

JJ, I also think what's worth mentioning is it's a wonderful LEARNING tool. Like Ken Wilber says: States and Stages. States are free for everyone, Stages have to be earned. But in states we can learn immensily too, you experience truth (or hallucination if you wanna be really boring about it ;p) for which there is no replacement.

I was able through shrooms to experience non-duality and it's the closest to 'home' I've felt, so I definitely have an immense respect. Also McKenna's work which suggests the mushroom could be a spore from outer space communicating throughout the cosmos. Etc.

Nas, yeah ego is a huge problem in spiritual development, which is kinda funny.

That's why I wonder about enlightenment and kundalini (btw, nobody has been able to answer me yet :p). Because enlightenment is the conquering of ego. But then again the serpent or dragon to be beaten also represents the ego in a way I thought. And then there's Jed McKenna with this truth-realization enlightenment and he could be an asshole too he said lol, even though he's probably fictional.

Steve said...

Enlightenment = Kundalini + Awareness? People go into Kundalini spontaneously (and sometimes can't get out again, according to Woodroffe's 'The Serpent Power'), but coupled with a trained consciousness capable of sustained levels of awareness it can be transmuted into a higher order of psycho-physiological functioning. Probably.

There's loads of good books on the phenomenon, don't be lazy trying to get compelling spiritual insight off of the interweb and go to the library! (;-p - how do you think I ended up on your website?...)

13 chakras - People say all kinds of numbers. Some 10, some 15, this guy claims 22!,957
Some people don't even count Sahasrara as a chakra, so there's 6.

I think the basic deal is beyond the ajna chakra there are various higher levels of spiritual attainment but they are increasingly of the order of 'states' than physically located chakras (Skt: 'wheels') - some people like to integrate it all together though, and some include just the first 3 or 7 higher as chakras.