Jacque Fresco: Zeitgeist Movement, New York

Zeitgeist Movement, New York

Zeitgeist Movement event which took place on March 15th 2009 in NYC at the BMCC TRIBECA Performing Arts Center. Only part of it, mostly the interview with Jacque Fresco, Peter Joseph and Roxanne Meadows, and some Q&A.

The Zeitgeist Movement: Orientation Presentation

The Zeitgeist Movement: Orientation Presentation

The activist arm of the Venus Project!

Red Ice Interview: Hijacking of Theosophy

Excellent Red Ice Creations interview with Michael Tsarion on the topic of the hijacking of Theosophy, founded by Helena Blavatsky. Thought it was good timing to counter some of the BS the dogmatic Christian-conspiracy-theory reality tunnel (CCT RT - which likes to confuse all occult symbolist deconstruction with an actual "religion" as the deconstruction of their religion is seen as a threat) are putting out there concerning the Zeitgeist and Zeitgeist Addendum documentaries. For some this may be preaching to the choir, but as this blog is visited by people with different reality tunnels some clarification can never hurt.
Theosophy is a philosophical system of religious (maybe spiritual is a better word, as I tend to associate the word "religion" not with any "divinity" but dogmatic belief systems) philosophy and metaphysics, it was - originally at least - nothing like a "religion" at all. The Interview talks about how the Theosophical society was hijacked and changed after Blavatsky's death by the likes of Annie Besant, C.W. Leadbeater, Alice Bailey...
Also mentioned on the other side are Rudolf Steiner, Krishnamurti (Christian conspiracy theory reality tunnel seems to love to ignore what's linked here), Osho, Aleister Crowley, Edward S. Lutton, etc. They also talk about the infiltration of other Secret Societies and some of the strategies behind the Bavarian Illuminati. Towards the end they talk about the diversity that one can encounter when researching everything from philosophy to conspiracy. Henrik also poses the question if modern truth movements like the "9/11 truth movement" also is in danger of being infiltrated by agents provocateur, or has that already happened?
I add the discordian saying: "We must stick apart!" No infiltration possible then. I posted this to clear some things up for beginning seekers, not to blindly defend the to me rather abstract Krishnamurti, or the to me unnecessary Theosophy movement (which helped lead to the New Age movement, which is supposed to be a decentralized western social and spiritual movement that seeks Universal Truth and the attainment of the highest individual human potential - though money, easy beliefs and a lack of skepticism; instead of openminded yet skeptical experimenting and knowing - seem to be more associated with it. Either way the point is never to blindly believe in someone else but to investigate and open your own potential) and its founder, though I liked the first volume of the Secret Doctrine as it was the first book to introduce me to deconstructing religious symbolism, but I did find it to be quite chaotic, the second volume didn't interest me very much at the time so I didn't get very far in that. Also see A comparison between H.P. Blavatsky & Alice Bailey: The Pseudo-Occultism of Alice Bailey (as the link to it on original Red Ice page is down).

To clarify: I'm not posting this to defend Theosophy or the New Age, as I'm not a fan of either. I'm posting this to clarify that the religious symbolist deconstruction in the first part of Zeitgeist 1 (Pharmacratic Inquisition excerpt) is not even Theosophy-related - as the CCT RT believes it is - but entirely separate from it. And that Krishnamurti's inclusion in Zeitgeist Addendum is even less Theosophy-related. So no freaking push for a one-world religion in either Zeitgeist. Duh. Captain Obvious, you poor fella, nobody likes you ;p

"I wouldn't join any club that would have me as a member."
Groucho Marx

Peter Joseph of Zeitgeist on Alex Jones

Peter Joseph[Zeitgeist Addendum] on The Alex Jones Show 1/4 & The Rest

Alex seriously overreacted to the proposed ideas in Zeitgeist Addendum in a paranoid way, check out the documentary Future By Design (and more, obviously) before judging Fresco's ideas entirely if ZA didn't convince you.

Listen to the interview first before reading on... Here are my remarks, obviously subjective preference is involved here, in my opinion the Venus Project is a vision of the future I really like and I don't mind defending it if criticism is so seemingly exaggerated. I just can't help but not vent something after listening to that:
Video 1: Just because Z.A. advocates environmentalism doesn't mean it's part of the damn Global Warming agenda. World unification is not world government. Who's gonna decide - obviously anyone with a brain is not gonna involve the ones in power now. And competition sucks, look at how "happy" the career whore is.
Video 2: Evil to me is born out of ignorance, philosophy 101. I wouldn't claim to know what happened with the crisis 100% for sure. Alex seems to be reaching a little to me.
Video 3: Excellent explanation by Peter Joseph. Excellent explanation of the NWO by Alex Jones from the top of his head, impressive. But lol, Alex wants to take back politics, geez. Representative democracy?! It's a contradiction in terms! It's based on BS! Free market will never get us great products, it's about money, so it'll only get great profits for some. Just like the Nazis? Project Paperclip? etc...
Video 4: 1. Genetics 2. Imprinting 3. Conditioning 4. Learning - Fresco admits he doesn't talk about Utopia, this vid is called "Jacque Fresco - No Utopia". Alex Jones really nullifies his own position here with that religious freak rant, wtf. I nearly laughed but couldn't out of bafflement. Though I did tag this with the Humor label...

The comments against Peter Joseph's docus seem to be either entirely subjective, religious, ignorant, completely ignoring of aspects of the Venus Project's philosophy, or just paranoid. Btw, the last 4 of those intermix. One dude asked me five questions, after saying he checked all the FBD clips, five questions that can be answered by those clips. Predictable. Sorry if I seem overly biased here myself, but honestly, ZA is just proposing ideas and doesn't deserve this overly paranoid treatment. And again I do understand some of the resistance as I personally found FBD a much better illustration of Jacque Fresco's ideas.

Interesting Comments received elsewhere:
"Alex Jones is pretty damn annoying at times (his voice and temper antics). He's also a contradiction, I mean, he expects everyone to wake up to the NWO, BUT he himself isn't prepared to wake up to the origins and awful truths associated with Christianity. You cannot be half awake and half asleep buddy! He fails because he can't transcend circuit 4." C

"Alex Jones is the mirror of Bill O'Reilly" KtR

Check out this Christian bullshit. An illustration in Confirmation Bias. Reaching as far as they can to find something to hammer on all points of the movie, and fail miserably. Guilty by the most distant "association" is the best they can come up with. Hilarious. Believing and thinking, huge difference. Of course, Christians can't have any solutions, things have to get crazy... cause otherwise Jesus won't have to come back, when is that again?

Summary:
Occult Symbolism and the sum of it is not a religion, it is knowledge, there is a damn difference. You don't believe in knowledge, you just are aware of it and don't have an emotional attachment to it like a religion.
Theosophy or the New Age movement will never be the new religion. People underestimate the rigidity of Belief Systems. The conspiracy theories that attempt to explain how this will be done would never succeed. Also, slight problem, nobody except the New Agers or Theosophists respect the New Age (stupid and commercialized) or Theosophy (dumb rigid attempt to centralization). Krishnamurti broke from Theosophy. Also, small detail, the Christians want the New World Religion to be Christianity and nothing else. And the atheist/materialists would probably want it to be their belief system. Openminded!
Fresco's ideas are not freaking communism, and they do not involve the current dicks in power to execute it. So replacing the Wage Slavery with being able to Learn & Create/Express what we want and being rewarded for how much we contribute is seen as negative, incredible. You want to keep the Free Market Economy? Tell it to the people making so many Western products for scraps, you selfish assholes.
The people opposing Zeitgeist want to keep hierarchy, competition and poverty. Not only that but Alex Jones talks about "taking back politics", lol representative democracy is a contradiction in terms.
Being aware about the environment is not the same as pushing a Global Warming agenda, and world unification is not the same as world government - it would just mean evolving beyond armies, wars and international corruption.
Use some critical thought. Oh right sorry, I guess the anti-zeitgeist-paranoiacs are in the business of believing and not thinking.

More about Alex Jones' objections to Zeitgeist Addendum

"Alan Watt and Alex Jones claim Zeitgeist, Krishnamurti, and Jacque Fresco are part of a transhumanist agenda."

This is BS. Re-searching stuff before sending it along to other people or adding helpful information helps us to wade through the "matrix of illusion".
* Zeitgeist 1 part 1 exposed the occult symbolism in all religion (it does not advocate an occult religion) from the documentary the Pharmacratic Inquisition, which rules. Alex Jones probably did not appreciate this to start with.
Part 2 included segments of 9/11 Loose Change. And Part 3 included America: From Freedom to Fascism which includes a message against microchipping the population.
* Krishnamurti was a mystic who broke off from the theosophist movement. I'm a mystic (and I am not too fond of Krishnamurti's writings, though he obviously has some good quotes, and hey: different teachers for different people), am I suddenly a transhumanist?
* Jacque Fresco has nothing to do with the transhumanist movement, the only "transhumanist" suggestion he has ever made that I know of is bionic eyes to make the blind see, oh no! how terrible. The inhumanity... Read Jacque's book Designing the Future, check out the sites, listen and read the interviews - then you can accuse of him of whatever... (that is what you're doing if you spread this stuff, you're not just saying "these people accuse him", you are doing it too by forwarding this crap.)

I don't trust anybody unconditionally. But I also realize that researchers may be just humans in public life talking about heavy stuff, that is not easy. They could be disinfo too here for predictive programming... who knows (though that is a dark view indeed).
I just think Alex Jones really didn't appreciate the first part of Zeitgeist 1 debunking Christianity and his American spirit can't stand anything that even reflects "communism" in the slightest (The Venus Project is not communism).
AJ basically said in his first Zeitgeist 2 videos that he wants to keep hierarchy, wtf?! Hierarchy will always have people oppressed. And Alan Watt... (NOT Alan Watts) I've listened to him for hours, heard stuff I heard everywhere else and some fearmongering, no solutions oh and the info that smoking cigarettes stops chemtrail effects... Good luck with that (Obviously oversimplified here, you get the idea). I will stay aware about Fresco too, but I don't see anything nefarious in the Venus project at this time...

Check out these two questions answered by Jacque Fresco in this interview:

Q: In this new culture do you propose to utilize a technical elite that would decide the direction for society?
A: No. The Venus Project calls for a cybernated society in which computers could replace the outmoded system of electing politicians that, in most cases, represent the entrenched vested interests. Technology will never dictate or monitor individuals' lives, as this would be considered socially offensive and counterproductive. Motion pictures such as 1984, Brave New World, Blade- Runner, and Terminator 2 have spawned fear in some people regarding the takeover of technology in our society. The Venus Project's only purpose is to elevate the spiritual and intellectual potential of all people while also providing the goods and services that will meet their individual material needs.
It has been said that many people employed by private corporations feel they serve in private dictatorships from the moment they step though the door and punch the time clock. The Venus Project, on the other hand, would utilize the best of technology to better the lives of everyone. In the proposed system, the workday will be shortened, thus providing individuals with more leisure time, a healthier life-style, and a stress-free environment.

Q: What are the safeguards against abuse of power in the society you envision?
A: In a resource-based economy, we surpass the need for money which is the basis for most corruption. The society we envision makes all goods and services available for everyone without a price tag. This is what the function of government could be, by surpassing the need for politics in the management of human affairs. At present, governmental decisions have always been subject to the influence of the power elite. The cybernated complex would only manage and improve the distribution of resources, to provide clean air, clean water, and all of the amenities that enhance human life. Again, it does not control people or manage the lives of individuals -- on the contrary, it could encourage the development of individual initiative and creativity far beyond that of our present-day money- oriented culture.
There are many who fear the installations of cybernated systems. This fear is unfounded. It is not technology that is to be feared. Our concern should be with the abuse of this technology, rather than with the inanimate technology itself.

Source: http://www.thevenusproject.com/vp_jac/interview.htm

Also read this earlier related post

Alex Jones loses it over Zeitgeist Addendum

Alex Jones analyzes Zeitgeist: Addendum Pt1 & the other 2 here

Both sides of the story: Here is a discussion incl. good pro-Zeitgeist Addendum arguments thread on the davidicke forum (but not much on the first pages). & Here is a pro-Alex Jones thread on the prisonplanet forum.

My catma is Alex was exaggerating here, he does raise some valid points but also takes a lot out of context in my opinion. Alex Jones his Christian Reality Tunnel didn't appreciate the first Zeitgeist (Pharmacratic Inquisition part) and Jacque Fresco's talk about Belief Systems. Before judging for yourself, if you don't know what to make of it I'd suggest to read the two forums threads linked and watch the documentary Future By Design which gives a much better representation of Fresco's ideas than Zeitgeist Addendum in my view, especially how human life could evolve, it's much more free than ZA seems to imply so I can understand some of the reactions. Check out the video clips of FBD. Alex Jones also kinda implies in these videos hierarchy is a good thing? To me it seems Fresco offers some great ideas to evolve beyond the current system of wage slavery and material focus. None can be forced of course. And obviously none of the crazies "in charge" now can be involved. We have to keep our eyes open and keep questioning always! What do you think about this? Did Alex go over the top? Are some people a little too suspicious of Fresco's ideas? (update: edited the post as there is such a thing as being too careful, especially after AJ had fellow fearmongerer Alan Watt (no S - and he's way too popular for what he's worth) on to bitch about the docu)


Future by Design Trailer

Acharya S Debunks the Debunkers

Acharya S Debunks the Debunkers

Acharya S, known from 'the Christ conspiracy', debunks the Zeitgeist debunkers which are usually biased towards Christian or other highly filtering belief systems.

Thanks Secret Sun

The Pharmacratic Inquisition

How deep does the rabbit hole go? Gnostic Media is proud to present the official online edition of The Pharmacratic Inquisition 2007. If you enjoyed “Zeitgeist - The Movie”, you will love this video; the creators of this video are listed as one of the sources for the Zeitgeist Movie. The Pharmacratic Inquisition 2007 is a video version of the book, “Astrotheology & Shamanism” by Jan Irvin & Andrew Rutajit. The painstakingly detailed and heavily footnoted research in the book comes to life in this video and is now available to you for FREE!

For further research of the claims made in this video, please read AstroTheology & Shamanism - this book is available to order as a combo with the DVD. Thousands of years ago, in the pre monarchic era, sacred plants and other entheogenic substances where politically correct and highly respected for their ability to bring forth the divine, Yahweh, God, The Great Spirit, etc., by the many cultures who used them. Often the entire tribe or community would partake in the entheogenic rites and rituals. These rites were often used in initiation into adulthood, for healing, to help guide the community in the decision process, and to bring the direct religious experience to anyone seeking it. In the pre literate world, the knowledge of psychedelic sacraments, as well as fertility rites and astronomical knowledge surrounding the sun, stars, and zodiac, known as astrotheology, were anthropomorphized into a character or a deity; consequently, their stories and practices could easily be passed down for generations.

Weather changes over millenniums caused environmental changes that altered the available foods and plant sacraments available in the local vicinity. If a tribe lost its shamanic El-der (El - God), all of the tribe's knowledge of their plant sacraments as well as astronomical knowledge would be lost. The Church’s inquisitions extracted this sacred knowledge from the local Shamans who were then exterminated…It is time to recognize the fact that this Pharmacratic Inquisition is still intact and destroy it.

http://www.GnosticMedia.com

http://www.Pharmacratic-Inquisition.com

Zeitgeist Adendum [II]

Zeitgeist Adendum [II] trailer (full version here)

Featuring Jacque Fresco, Bill Hicks, George Carlin and more.


15 March 2008 Z-Day

Zeitgeist Addendum full version here
1st Zeitgeist remastered post